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FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace

News/Business. (2012) Sen. Mark Warner; Sen. Mark Udall; Sen. Rob Portman; Sen. Ron Johnson. New. (CC) (Stereo)

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Benghazi 14, Wisconsin 13, Virginia 13, Us 9, Obama 8, Ohio 8, America 7, Udall 6, Johnson 6, Colorado 6, Romney 5, Warner 5, Washington 4, Cia 4, Leon Panetta 4, U.s. 4, Karl 4, Richard Mourdock 3, New York 3, Portman 3,
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  FOX    FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace    News/Business.  (2012) Sen. Mark Warner; Sen. Mark  
   Udall; Sen. Rob Portman; Sen. Ron Johnson. New. (CC) (Stereo)  

    October 29, 2012
    2:00 - 3:00am PDT  

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>> chris: i'm chris wallace, with nine days until the election, obama an romney pull out all the stops. ♪ >> chris: it is the swing state show down. as the candidates crisscross the country. we'll discuss where the race stands and what issues matter most, with senators from the states who will decide the election. republicans rob portman of ohio. and ron johnson of wisconsin. democrats mark warner of virginia and mark udall of colorado and how does the electoral map look going in to the last week of the campaign,
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we'll ask the sunday panel where the race will be won and lost and from fine debate to around the clock rallies, we're on the stretch, on the trail. all, right now, on fox news sunday. ♪ >> chris: and, hello, again, from fox news in washington. we'll get to our coverage of the presidential race, in a moment. but, first, that huge storm that is bearing down on the east coast, threatening millions, as well as disrupting campaign schedules. here's the latest on the storm from the fox news extreme weather center, in new york. >> chris, yes, the storm likely we've never seen before, anywhere in the u.s. and you can see, already, cloud cover into canada, and, still down to south carolina. and the center of the storm, still strengthening. pressure continues to drop, the impacts from the storm will be significant. major coastal flooding, from new jersey to maine, especially new jersey and long island and, talking about a long duration event and we'll see isolated
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rainfall totals of 10 inches and major inland flooding and the big problem, though, will be, everybody seeing significant wind, that means major tree damage, for a huge swath of land here. a lot of people without power by the time it is done, likely, in the tens of millions. chris, when you have those kinds of numbers it will take a long time to get power back on, likely, many people will not have it on next tuesday during election day. >> chris: now, the campaign. with president obama and governor romney headed into the final week, we want to track where the race stands with senators from four key swing states. republican rob portman of ohio, who played president romney in the debate represent and 18 electoral votes are in play en a state obama won in '08, by 4.6 points and now leads 2.3 points in the latest real clear politics average of recent polls and republican ron johnson of wisconsin, 10 electoral votes at stake and obama won by almost 14
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points, last time, and, is now leading by 2.3. and democrat mark warner of virginia, obama won its 13 electoral votes by 6 points, four years ago and now is tied with romney. and, democrat mark udall of colorado, obama won the 9 electoral votes last time by nine points and the race there is now dead even. senator portman, let's start with the state i guess most people think may decide the race, that is ohio. the obama camp says they have the big edge in early voting in your state and also note that they have 137 campaign offices around the country, and the romney camp has only 39. >> well, chris, first of all, you mentioned the real clear politics average in ohio, 2.3%, in the president's favor and now it is 1.9%, actually because the polls are closing, the latest poll, by the ohio newspapers, showing the race a dead heat.
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and that is certainly what i feel. i also feel like momentum is on our side. i have been at 6 rallies over the last week and at about a dozen centers around the state and energy and enthusiasm is on our side this year and it is interesting to watch. but, we were down 5 to 10 points before the debates and after the debates, we are about dead even and it is moving our way. >> chris: senator warner, your state of virginia is right in the path of that huge storm. if you lose power, and, you could lose it for days, could it have an effect on early voting, and even have an effect on election day? >> well, chris, the governor already declared a state of emergency. i think we don't have as extensive early voting in virginia as other states and i think in terms of how the president looks, it looks quite good and "washington post" had a poll today with the president above the magic 50% mark, 51.7, four points up and had a great
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rally the other day in richmond and 50,000 people strong, the strongest rally in virginia, to date. the storm will throw havoc into the race and i was supposed to meet with the president and president clinton on monday and the rally is cancelled. but i think virginians are ready to go to the polls and i think the president will carry virginia, just as four years ago when virginia was the state that put the president over the edge in terms of winning we hope to claim that title, again this year. >> chris: senator johnson, let's turn to wisconsin, which has not gone for a republican since ronald reagan back in 1984, how much do you think romney will be helped by the big organization governor scott walker had to build to hold off the recall vote last june? >> well, it was definitely helpful. we have a strong ground game here and, the most recent rasmussen poll was dead even, 49-49. but, argues mo shgamong voters that are mind, governor romney garnered 51% versus president
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obama, 41 and 48, and, around the centers yesterday, the issue of benghazi is bubbling up and people are demanding answers from the administration. i think it will have a big impact in the state of wisconsin. >> chris: we'll get to benghazi in a little later in our discussion, senator udall, i was surprised to learn 80% of voters in your state will have voted before election day and the romney camp says they are winning in absentee requests and early voting and are also swinging the suburbs around denver, that went for obama, four years ago. >> good morning, chris. we have a great ground game here in colorado. you are right, about 80% of votes will be cast before election day. but, in the end, colorado will go for a president who has overseen slow but steady economic growth an unemployment levels below 8% and the coloradans look for a leader who says what he means and means
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what he says and governor romney has three problems, we don't know if it is moderate mitt or me, too, mitt or conservative mitt who will serve as a president and has been unfriendly to hispanics and latinos and women want to make their own health care decisions and the republican party has in effect said to women, we know what is best for you and don't want you to make your own discussions and those are reegsreegs reasons the president will carry colorado. >> chris: you gave us a lot 0 chew on, let's start with the economy which everyone agrees is the number one concern for voters. senator johnson in wisconsin, let me put up numbers, the unemployment rate is nationally 7.8% and gdp growth in the third quarter rose from 1.3% in the second quarter to 2.0 and it is still a weak recovery but aren't the president's policies starting to turn things around? >> no, we have had incredibly tepid, meager recovery, and the fact that gdp rose 2%, all you
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can say is it is less bad news and what happened here in wisconsin, after the first debate, the very false character president obama spent hundreds of millions of dollars portraying governor romney was shattered and when wisconsin saw it, he was a man with integrity and intelligence and had a plan unlike president obama, who has no ways to save social security or focus and unlike the senate, there has been no leadership in three years and, ryan paul, has the courage to put forward real proposals. >> chris: let me, senator warner talk about the economic recovery, weak as it is in historical terms, the fact is, even though, as i say, unemployment is down to 7.8%, no president has been reelected with unemployment this high since fdr back in 1940, no president has been reelected with growth this low since they started tracking gdp back in 1930. those are strong historical head
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winds. >> yes, chris, but i think we need to also look at where we were and where we have come. i mean, we all remember how bad things were four years ago, losing 800,000 jobs a month and are net positive, 5 million plus jobs and the gdp numbers, i'd like to see them higher but compare america to the rest of the world, we are the one shining spot in the whole world, look at us compared to europe, china, india. i think we are going to lead the world recovery and i think the president has us back on the right track. i think we need to deal with the budget issues which i know, my colleagues would agree with as well, in terms of not going over the fiscal cliff. but, i would echo what senator udall said. you know, we don't really know what governor romney's plan is. the budget plan he lays out would actually cut 75% of all investment in education, and, r&d and infrastructure and that is not a way to grow an economy, going forward. and, when you look more
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specifically at virginia, we're at 5.8, 5.9% unemployment and we have recovered quicker than other states and again, one of the reasons is the president is going to -- the reasons i think the president will carry virginia. >> chris: senator udall we'll get to romney's plan in a moment, but, obama on the campaign trail, he was brandishing, you can see it here, the glossy brochure, that he said is his agenda for the next four years and states goals like, create 1 million manufacturing jobs, by 2016 and cut net oil imports in half by 2020. but, senator, these are recycled targets from four years ago. that he was unable to achieve in his first term. >> chris, we have made a lot of progress to reaching those goals and if you look at what the president's accomplished, we are moving forward, and, my concern and what i hear from coloradans is a president romney would go back to the policies of the bush
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administration, which were pretty simply, cut taxes, cut regulations, and run up the debt. that isn't going to work. president obama is of course making the case, over this last nine days, about what he'd do if he is handed a second term and he would build on the successes of the last four years. now, he strapped the president into a plane heading to the ground at mach speed and he's righted the plane and we have lift and we are headed in the right direction and he deserves a second term. >> chris: senator portman let me have you weigh in both, on the obama agenda, for a second term, and his record, and, also, questions about romney's record and whether it simply returns to the policies of george w. bush. >> chris, it is simple. why governor romney is doing better in ohio. people are focused on the economy and jobs, and, mitt romney has a plan that is pro-growth and pro jobs to turn this thing around and, obama doesn't and when people look at the last four years they are
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disappointed, they must be. look, we are living through the weakest economic recovery since the great depression. and, there are 22 million americans struggling to find work and 3.5 million more women in poverty and take home pay has gone down $4300 per family on average and it is not the right direction, we are headed in the wrong direction and you have president obama, you are right. he has a glossy brochure and i've looked at that brochure and as you know i played the role of obama during the debate preps and it is more of the same and you can argue we need to do more of the same but it hasn't worked and hasn't worked by president obama's own measurements, he said unemployment would be 50% lower, than it is, if we passed the stimulus package and, economic growth would be 2/3 higher than it is. and the one thing that is in his now parole is to raise taxes and he wants to raise taxes on a million small businesses including a lot here in ohio and that will result according to a study by the national federation of independent businesses with a
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700,000 job loss which we cannot afford. so, governor romney instead has proposed pro-growth policies including a tax reform proposal that lowers the rate of taxation, but makes the tax code far more efficient, simplifies it and, that will result in 7 million new jobs, over the next ten years. that is the choice people have and in ohio, you know, they are choosing mitt romney, and that is where the enthusiasm is. >> chris: gentlemen i want to move on and one of you talked about the issue of women, and, the two campaigns have been battling for months, over women, and the polls seem to indicate that in fact romney has succeeded to at least some degree, depending on the poll in closing the gender gap when it comes to women preferring obama over him but this week, indiana republican senate candidate richard mourdock talked about having no exceptions at all in the case of abortion. let's take a look: >> live is a gift from god and i think even when life begins in that horrible situation, of rape, that it is something that
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god intended to happen. >> chris: senator johnson, mitt romney disavowed richard mourdock's comments and, he has tried to walk them back but it brings up the bigger question. why should a woman who believes of freedom of choice when it comes to abortion, why should she vote for mitt romney, who said he'd like to see roe vs. wade overturned and who favors cutting off all federal funding for planned parenthood? >> well, chris, first of all, i have heard one person talk about the abortion issue during the entire campaign. what people in wisconsin, what is moving the needle here is they recognize mitt romney is an individual, who when faced with the legislature controlled by democrats is actually able to work with the democrats and look at his record, versus president obama, who has been totally unable to work with divided government in washington... >> chris: sir, if i may, on the question of abortion, though... go ahead. >> i mean, chris, it's not even an issue. it's not an issue here in
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wisconsin. it doesn't even move the radar at all. the people are concerned about, like i said, yesterday, is unbelievable, how many people came up to me, demanding answers on benghazi. i had a father, a marine, a young marine, saying, listen i want to know who the commander-in-chief is and what orders he gave and what didn't he give and that is the question on the table. i think for the last ten days, what happened in benghazi and, abortion doesn't even show up. >> chris: all right. i promise we'll get to benghazi in a moment. first i want to give senator warner a chance to talk about the women's issue. on the one hand, obviously, you have a lot of women who are liberal on social issues and not happy with mitt romney and on the other hand, the recession, by all standards, number of women, who have lost jobs, number of women who have gone into poverty, has hit women, even harder than men. >> well, chris, i continue to find it remarkable, whether the republican senate candidate in indiana or the republican senate
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candidate in missouri who somehow are making these outrageous comments about rape. the fact is i know in virginia, one reason why women are supporting the president is our state legislature made virginia, frankly a laughingstock with some of the intrusive ultrasound type of procedures that they were proposing, until the governor had to try to walk them back. people are afraid when you at the end of the year the keys over to these dyes who seem so disconnected and honestly, it's not only about women's reproductive health, it is now economic issues and women's ability to have child and family medical leave and making sure women's health care issues are related to women's ability to be active in the workforce, so, somehow, saying these are not issues of importance, i can only speak to the folks i'm dealing with, in virginia, both the women and man, want to make sure that we keep the elected officials, kind of out of these personal decisions and unfortunately, what -- my
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understanding of it is, romney, ryan, the republican platform, is exactly the same issue with richard mourdock and mr. aiken and other candidates put forward and is a reason why you are seeing in virginia -- >> let me interrupt briefly to say the romney position is that the he would allow exceptions in the case of rape, incest and the life of the woman. but let's -- >> hasn't mr. romney, though, vote consistently... >> chris: he has on -- mr. romney, to allow those exceptions... >> but, he has voted -- mr. ryan's voting record -- >> mr. ryan... joe biden didn't agree, with a lot of barack obama's positions but you listen to the guy in the top job. >> look, look at his positions now. i guess that is news. >> chris: no, actually, it has been for some period of time. let's move on to libya and the continuing controversy on the attack in the consulate in benghazi that killed four
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people, four americans and we learned friday, cia operators on the ground repeatedly requested military backup, and were refused and that they also asked to be able to go from the annex where they worked, over to the consulate to help out there, and were refused. and, this week, the father of one of the navy s.e.a.l.s, the father of slain a former navy s.e.a.l., let's look at what he said. >> he violated his orders in order to protect the lives of at least 30 people and he risked his life to be a hero and i wish the leadership in the white house had the same moral courage that my son displayed. >> chris: senator, you are on the senate armed services committee, also on the senate intelligence committee. how do you answer critics who say that the obama administration has bungled this, before, during and after the
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attack? >> chris, we share the grief that mr. woods exhibited in that segment. let me say this: we're going to get to the bottom of this. the intelligence committee will hold hearings when we return right after the election and the state department has its own investigation underway but i have to say this: any impartial observer who looks at what happened in benghazi, would have to say this situation has been politicized. governor romney himself realizes that his actions and his reaction was unbecoming for a potential commander-in-chief and he has backed off those comments in that point of view. in the debate this last week, benghazi and libya was not even raised when the governor had a chance to discuss it. we ought to be acting in the spirit of ambassador stevens and ought to be pulling together. after 9/11 -- >> wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. senator... certainly, it is a legitimate issue to discuss before an election, when four americans were killed, and there are questions of intelligence
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failures before and during the attack, is it not? >> it is a legitimate issue, but, every story leads to political commentary, and trying to point fingers. after 9/11, we came together, there were a lot of questions that had to be answered, let's operate in that same spirit and let's remember what ambassador stevens was riding to do and stand together. the middle east is crucial, we need to be tough there and smart and engaged. this discussion has been politicized, and it has not been helpful or helped us get to the bottom of what happened. >> chris: let me ask you a direct question. drones were flying over benghazi at the time of the attacks, during the hours when first the consulate and the annex, six or eight hours were under attacks, were the drones armed? >> we're going to find that out. as you have mentioned, i sit on the intelligence committee and so does senator warner and gel we'll get to the bottom of it and the information, if appropriate, will be revealed... >> chris: do you, sir -- >> i can no comment on that at this point in time, chris.
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>> chris: you certainly agree that if they were armed they could have, without as leon panetta said, sending more troops into harm's way could have been used to break up the attack? >> the drone assets that we have are remarkable and they save the lives of many, many americans, while we have been getting the bad guys and i look forward to discussing it with you further when i have the information and am able to share it with you. >> chris: senator portman, also on the armed services committee, what do you make of leon pan net who says in terms of the criticism we didn't send troops to break up the attack, you don't put more u.s. assets in harm's way until you have hard intelligence on the ground as to when they are getting into? >> chris, i have to tell you, i a member of the armed services committee and i appreciate what mark udall said about not politicizing this. this is not about politics, it is a huge national security issue that affects all of us and there was a shocking break down, operationally, not to have the security there in the first place and not to respond to
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these guys, in their pleas for help for 7 hours, during the firefight. it is unbelievable and now, we are hearing that the president of the united states, based on his own words, issued a directive immediately after he found out about the firefight, saying, he wanted to be sure those people on the ground were safe and were getting what they needed. it didn't happen. this means either that the president's order was not followed, which would be a break down in terms of the white house procedure, or, it means the order was not issued. we need to find out about this, it is not about politics, it is a very serious situation. after the fact, of course, there has been a lot of confusion about what happened and why. i think the bottom line for us, it shows a lack of leadership. and it shows the policy in disarray and is perfectly appropriate to ask these questions, as you know, john mccain and i sent a letter, month than two weeks ago, to secretary panetta, asking for some of these answers and we haven't heard anything and we sent another letter, yesterday, with the additional information
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we're hearing directly from the president about the order that he issued. why wasn't it followed? this makes no sense. >> chris: senator warner, we have a couple of minutes left and i want you and senator johnson to also weigh in. senator warner, you know, a skeptic would say, you know, yes, this investigation is going to happen after election day. but, we won't know the facts when people have to go vote. >> well, chris, again, in a number -- as a member of the intelligence committee, what we ought not to be doing is getting into some of these issues, candidly, that -- after what senator udall said, about drone assets and, even the reports your network has issued, the administration categorically denied, i have an enormous amount of faith in the process, and we are going to take on, in the intelligence community, a look at this and i have an enormous amount of faith in former deputy head of the state department, tom pickering and
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the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, mike mullen who will be leading the investigation and finding out what exactly happened and what those time lines are and, if the mistakes were made, get those exposed so it would never happen again. >> chris: senator warner, let me go back -- >> four americans whose lives were killed and the most appropriate thing is let's have the information, investigate it in a proper and very appropriate way, the same way the state department launched previous investigations whenever members of the personnel are killed. >> chris: senator warner, one direct question about the drones. i can understand how it would be politically embarrassing for the administration, if it turns out those drones were armed and weapons were not fired, when those men were, the u.s. americans -- americans with your under attack for 7 hours and i can't understand how it would give up valuable intelligence, can you tell me directly, were the drones armed or not that were flying over benghazi and were reporting it in real time?
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>> chris, this member of the senate intelligence committee will not make any comments on drones, on the record, off the record or anywhere else. >> chris: senator johnson, you have a minute for the final word. >> chris, the american people have the right to know. and that is what they are demanding here in wisconsin. let's face it. what was the president doing, during those 7 hours? did he give that directive? or didn't he? did leon panetta directly defy him? what happened? who set out? who sent ambassador rice out five days later when they knew it was a terrorist attack, pre-planned, sent her on sunday talk shows to say in fact it was a spontaneous reaction to of course the video. this administration purposefully misled the american people for weeks. this president misled the american people for weeks. and, i think the american people have the right to know. it was either misleading or incompetent and we are finding out it was both, misleading an incompetence on the half of the
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administration. the american people have a right to know. >> chris: senators, thanks for coming in today and giving us your assessment of where the race stand in your key swing states and we'll see how the world turns in these next nine days. thanks again. >> thanks, chris. >> have a good day. >> chris: coming up, we'll go into the electoral map in-depth and chart all the ways romney or obama could reach 270 electoral votes and be elected president. we crunch the numbers with our sunday panel including karl rove, when we come right back. ♪ energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy development comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing generations of cleaner-burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self-contained well systems. and, using state-of-the-art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment. we're america's natural gas.
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♪ >> he's out there with the campaign, right now, which is out of ideas, and out of excuses and that is why in november you will make sure he's out of office. >> president barack obama: i don't want your vote just because of what i have done, i want your vote because of what i'm gonna do. >> chris: president obama and mitt romney trying to rally their supporters, as we approach the final week of this long campaign. and it is time now for our sunday group. brit hume, fox news senior political analyst. democratic strategist joe trippi, karl rove, founder of the republican super pac, american crossroads, and, fox news political analyst, juan williams. let's start with karl rove's electoral map, based on public polls from last week and let's look at it. very pretty, i must say. karl, you had states followed or leading obama in various shades of blue. with 237 electoral votes.
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states solid or leading romney in shades of red and pink with 206 electoral votes an 8 tossup states in yellow and, you need 270 to win the presidency, now, let's look at another chart from last monday, and, this shows all of the states -- well it doesn't show all of the states, but, in any case, it shows the toss-up states and some of the leaning obama and romney. anticipate movement in this last week? >> well, we'll know tomorrow night with our electoral college map and now we're at a point in the campaign where there is little movement, the momentum was on romney's side and, the closer you get to the end, one of two scenarios happens, it is 1980 and there is rapid movement in one candidate's direction or what i think we are seeing, movement towards romney but slowing because we're getting down to very thin groups of people left undecided. >> chris: do you have any sense of big movement in any of these states?
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look. >> look, polls are less important than looking at the early voting numbers and actual people voting and take for example, ohio. in ohio, 109,000 fewer democrats applied for an absentee ballot and they have until next day, but most people applied by now, 109,000 fewer democrats than four years ago and 4,000 more republicans have -- than four years ago already and there is a shift of maybe 120, 130,000 absentee ballots towards republicans in the state won by the democrats. >> chris: let me ask you another question i asked portman and he didn't answer, the obama camp has 137 field offices around the state of ohio and the romney camp, 39. >> first of all, a lot of those car auld the lucas county democratic head cartequarters ay call them obama quarters and what matters is volunteers, the 2004 ohio bush campaign was unbelievable. they have now busted the metrics for that campaign.
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yesterday the ohio victory committee knocked on the 2 millionth door and they probably will have knocked on -- >> the romney campaign. >> romney campaign, made 7 million contacts by election day. >> chris: any comment you want to make about karl's map or swing states? >> i'm struck by -- karl talked about the maps, since april and it is the same management. it has gone back and forth. i have been there, called ohio leaning and -- it never leaned romney, that is the one thing and romney never had a lead in any of the polls, during the entire year. in ohio. but, look, part of the disadvantage romney has, and part of the reason you have the headquarters numbers so big is because obama's been fighting for ohio for four years and they had a -- never turned down their structure for four years ago, and obama, romney, because of the primaries, couldn't put as much focus on that. i think that is a disadvantage on election day.
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>> chris: there is clearly -- has clearly been movement in the polls, nationally and in the swing states towards romney, especially since the first debate, early october. how do you read the race, at this moment? >> well, let's assume that everyone is right. ohio is the linchpin in the whole thing which i think is a reasonable supposition at this point. you have a set of national polls, to include gallup, and rasmussen, that show romney with a 4, 5, 6 point lead, depending on which poll you look at. there will be another one out tomorrow and this is a bipartisan poll, which is a solid poll, reliable poll and will show romney up 5, inactionally. and, in the battle ground... no, battleground poll is the name of it but it is a national poll. if those polls are generally correct it is difficult to imagine that ohio would be all that different. ohio has pretty closely tacked the national outcome for, since about 1960.
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so, it is certainly true, and worth noting, that mitt romney does not now lead in a single ohio poll. but i can't believe that that national poll wouldn't tell you something about how iowa will go if the polls are correct. >> chris: juan. >> is the me moment has stopped and mitt romney, especially after the first debate, what we're looking at, if you, you know, let's forget all the complexity we hear from joe and karl. romney has never led in ohio. he has never led in nevada, wisconsin, iowa, never, and none of the polls. okay. and so what you get here is a situation where, at the moment, he's trying to perpetuate the momentum by coming on with this argument that he is moderate mitt. a little bit of trick-or-treat for the halloween season here. like what is this real mitt. but he wants -- >> sounds like and obama talking point. >> no. the fact is, that is the try he's making for the few voters that remain, that he's not the
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guy that barack obama castigated as a hard hearted extremist, and i think that is why paul ryan has disappeared from the map for the most part. he's off, and you don't see him in a place like ohio or wisconsin. >> chris: he's in ohio, right now. >> made a major address in cleveland. >> and... >> alabama, you will see him in south carolina. >> one day, please -- >> please, please, get out of here. >> as a matter of fact, it is an inconvenient fact, juan. >> chris: he was in ohio. >> let me say, the key here is the new voters and the turnout and the thing is, you know, you talk about context and all of this, the new voters and the fact there are so million new voters, young people, blacks, hispanics and that is hard to make up for and i think that is why -- >> assuming they vote. >> that's the thing, so far in the early voting karl talked about, he talked about added registration forms and look at
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the results from early voting and they favor president obama, because those polls have -- >> no, they don't. this is an important point. if you look at ohio, for example, 57% of the absentee ballot requests come from democrats who voted in none, one or two of the last three election and 72% of the republican absentee ballot application come from people who didn't vote -- voted in none, one or two of the last election and that is to say the democrats are cannibalizing the election day turnout and the republicans are getting the new votes out. >> i'm saying the results are, in both camp, obama is beating romney. >> chris: time out. two questions, karl and one, i want to talk about the disparity between the national polls which are leaning romney and the state polls that are leading obama and is it possible we're ready for another 2000, you could have romney win the popular vote in the case and, obama win the electoral vote. >> we could.
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and i think it is a small chance, because i think, brit is right when you have -- if the margin is as big nationally as it appears in these polls, then you will have the state polls -- we may have something else at play here, though, which is, we're endowing all of these polls with the precision they don't have. take ohio, there were 21 polls since the first debate. in 15 -- 16 of them, romney led among independence by an average of 13 points and obama led among independents by two and two polls, didn't break it out by republican, democrat or independent and it is hard to believe that if romney is leading among republicans by the margins that he is and leading among democrats by -- excuse me, independents by an average of 13, he's is not going to win. >> chris: less than a minute left. one last question. you have the map, like it is set in stone but you hear talked about the possibility there could be new states that come on, you hear talk about pennsylvania and michigan. and minnesota. could romney have a chance in any of these other states we had
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previously thought were pretty solid for obama. >> he bought television in minnesota, only minneapolis tv to hit the far western counties in wisconsin, but i would say, that we have to watch and see what happens, this next week in michigan and pennsylvania. >> chris: they could come into play. >> they lean obama but these states moved from obama to lean obama, if there is a national trend as there appears since may the first debate, moving in his direction... >> chris: ten seconds. >> i don't think those states are in play. i think they can sucker romney in, to spend some time there but i wouldn't do that if i were them, if they win ohio or wisconsin, the states that are up, they have a better shot at getting there than hoping those states come into play. >> chris: like herding cats here today! when we come back, what issues will decide the race, the issue starting with the swelling controversy over the terror attack in benghazi. ♪ bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars
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it's easier than learning the twist. ♪ >> the principle is, that you don't deploy forces into harm's way without knowing what is going on. >> to me, that is not only... those people who made the decision, and who knew about the decision and lied about it, are murderers of my son. >> chris: defense secretary panetta and charlie woods, father of the former navy s.e.a.l. killed in the benghazi attack. disagreeing over the decision not to provide military backup, while the assault was going on. and we're back now with the
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panel. let's talk about the issues that may swing voters, in the final week of the campaign and let's start with libya, there were several developments this past week, we learned, as you heard debated there, the fact that the cia operators on the ground in benghazi, asked for a military backup and were turned down several times while the attack was going on and we also found out that cia people on the ground reported that during the attack, that a jihadist group, ansar al-sharia was claiming responsibility for the attack. brit what, do you make of this especially in the context of the campaign. >> what i make of it is, it looks terrible. even though i don't fully endorse the remarks of the grieving father, there, i understand his grief. i lost a son myself, but not in military combat and i don't think you can accuse officials in washington who made these decisions, of murder. however, we don't know enough
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now, about how these decisions were made, and when and by whom. leon panetta offered a hint of an explanation you don't send forces into harm's way and after all, if you mount a rescue or military operation, these things require a lot of planning, and, we don't know whether there were any plans on the shelf they could have called on to do this. it doesn't explain, though, the possibility that your questions to your earlier panel raised, which is, where the drones are. we have gotten air support, in that way, could we have gotten air support in that way and my sense is the president made the call. makes sense he would and it would be a big enough deal it would have to go to him and the decision not to go for whatever reason was made by him but he will not tell us and no one else seems willing to tell us. i think it's therefore likely that the answer is something that worries the white house, would hurt politically. >> chris: you know, it was
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interesting, in our conversation with the senators, juan, you could see the two republicans, johnson and portman, really trying to make an issue of this, the president needs to tell us what he knew and what he did, particularly, during the attack. can you make that stick as a campaign issue in the last week? they are certainly trying to. there is no intervening event that would really shift the dynamics of the race at this point i think they are looking to this incident, which is a tragedy, the question is, at what point do people think that they are politicizing the tragedy, or, you know, trying to exploit it and that would be the downside. there are very few voters left out there and, the polls don't indicate that this is an issue that is moving anybody. you can have anecdotal statements about people saying, hey, this concerns me and worries me. but, when you hear from the director of national intelligence, james clapper and when you hear from leon panetta, you have to have more information and more time, you understand this is a very difficult situation and to
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suddenly say, it was this person's fault or speculate about that, i'm not sure it has the power to shift the dynamics of the race. >> chris: you think this, exactly -- let me pick up on that karl, does it have power to shift the dynamics? should romney go after it and let the senators and vice presidential candidate -- >> keep focused on the economy and let others go after it. it had a corrosive effect and the nbc/"wall street journal" in late august, the president's approval on foreign policy, 54-40 and, last week, 49-46 and the monmouth poll, 9 point advantage for obama in late set up and now a 1-point advantage last week and you don't want to send people into harm's way without knowing what is on the ground but you can move assets to the conflict and have a c-130 gunship orbiting off of begin gaza, waiting for -- benghazi and a qrf, quick rapid force into position and, have them out
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there and, the president says he ordered support to be given and, yet, support was not given. there are too many unanswered questions and the administration is stonewalling and the american people have a right to know. it ought to be done outside of the bounds of the political campaign and i applaud governor romney for not pressing the issue in the last debate. there was political advantage to him keeping it focused on the economy but also is good for the country the questions be raised by congress and answered by the president and the president -- >> you said could have, woof, should have in a political context and let me finish, normally republicans have an advantage in handling foreign affairs, national security. even if your polls, president obama retains the advantage but it has been used to shrink it. just what you said. >> first of all, it has been shrunk by ordinary americans looking at the president's handling of the situation and, feeling that he is coming up way short and my comment about looking at this, i'm looking at this from the perspective of having been in the white house and i cannot imagine that at
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4:05 in the afternoon the situation room got word of an attack on an american facility in benghazi they wouldn't have taken it to the president and the national security advisor and the president would not have been engaged and i take the president's word. >> thank you, karl, you said... >> chris: wait, let karl finish. >> blaming the -- >> juan, hold on, let karl finish. >> i did. >> no, he didn't. he didn't. >> no. >> chris: let him finish. >> if the president ordered the assistance be given and none was given until well after 7 hours later. if the cia at the clan des type annex were told three times don't engage and we had men disregard the orders of their superiors and go to the fighting in order to save american lives, something was fundamentally and dangerously wrong and the president of the united states, rather than the next day finding out what happened went on a campaign trip to vegas and colorado. >> chris: go ahead. >> if romney thought it would
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get him there, i think he would -- and wanted to put it on the front burner, he could. i think the one truth that is spoken here today is he wants it to be fought on the economy. it doesn't mean the other stuff wasn't true, it means that is what he wants the spotlight on. >> chris: what did you make of the clear -- my words, discomfort -- the two democratic senators both members of the senate intelligence committee, had when i asked them whether or not the drone over benghazi was armed. >> my guess is they can't say anything about what the drones were doing. i'm not sure they can talk about -- verify drones were overhead. these are all... >> it has been verified. >> but i'm saying, as members of the intelligence committee they may have to be more careful than me and juan and you, speculating about what they are doing. >> i bet it means they were armed. >> it may. >> one of the problems we're having here is, that it has
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fallen to this news organization, fox news and a couple others to do all the heavy lifting on the story. and the mainstream media that would be after this like a pack of hounds, if this were a republican president, have been remarkably reticent and there has been some good reporting but nothing on the scale and to the degree of specificity that you would expect by now. normally, the big news organizations would have this thing out there. and we would know a lot more than we do, about what president did, what he knew and when he knew it and what order he made, on what basis. we still don't know that and to some extent a lot of the media who are combined... have not done their job. >> chris: what would you say. >> to brit, what i think is going on, look, this is how it works, you have one or two news groups pushing a story like this and the opposition, asks a lot of questions, too, and, there's a congressional investigation, state department investigation and we find out the truth.
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the problem is, everybody wants to hurry up and find the truth out before the election, which is... >> you notice the morning after the testimony by the first witness who said on capitol hill under oath it was a terrorist attack "the new york times" had zero about that. there has been reticence on the part of major news organizations. >> we have seen it before. >> i'm not saying in the end it isn't all going to come out. this is different. >> chris: we are going to have to leave it there. thank you all. have a nice sunday, everybody enjoy themselves and don't forget to check out panel plus where we'll pick up right with this discussion on our web site, foxnewssunday.com and we'll post the video before noon eastern time and follow us on twitter, @foxnews sunday. up next, we go on the trail. nuf. machines, tools, people making stuff. companies have to invest in making things. infrastructure, construction, production. we need it now more than ever.
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♪ >> chris: check out fox news sunday.com for behind-the-scenes features, panel-plus and our special monday preview of the week ahead. you can find it at foxnewssunday.com and be sure to let us know what y
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♪ >> chris: from a final debate on foreign policy, to round-the-clock campaigning, romney and obama are locked in a furious race to the finish. here's what it was like on the trail... ♪
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>> the nature has changed, we have these things, called aircraft carriers where planes land on them. >> mr. president, america has not dictated to other nations, we have freed other nations, from dictators. >> we witnessed a president who really has no record to run on. >> half the time i didn't know whether governor romney was there to debate barack obama or endorse barack obama. [cheers and applause]. >> how are you doing? great... >> president barack obama: last night and throughout the campaign i laid out a plan for jobs, and middle class security. >> this idea of growing the economy is raising taxes. does anyone think raising taxes creates more jobs? >> i have the deal for the president... >> what is he saying with trump and -- what is this thing with trump and you, it is like me and letterman, what does he have against you? >> president barack obama: it dates back to when we were growing up together in kenya... [laughter].
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>> president barack obama: we are pulling and all-nighter. no sleep. >> president barack obama: you notice my voice is getting a little hoarse. >> we have come too far to turn back now. >> we recognize this is a year with a big choice and the american people want to see big changes. and, together we can bring that kind of change, real change, to our country. [cheers and applause]. >> chris: and with the race so close you can count on the campaign getting even more intense, in these last nine days. and we'll be right back with a final note.
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>> chris: now, this program note: next sunday on the final weekend before the election, we'll focus on how each side plans to turn out its supporters. our guests will include a political director of the romney campaign, as well as the top official from the obama team. and that's it for today. have a great week and we'll see you from our election headquarters in new york, next you from our election headquarters in new york, next fox news sunday. captioning by, closed captioning services, inc.
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